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73 Responses to “Distro hopping all the way back to Windows XP”

1. So …
   You refuse to use Gnome, the desktop that is designed to work out of the box, and prefer KDE, the desktop for people who want to configure everything manually, but you didn’t want to screw around and just wanted it to work, saying “If you’re easily annoyed by inconsistency and the need to tinker with things to get them working, you aren’t going to like Linux one little bit.”

   You want to use the propritary ATI driver when the open-source driver supports 2D and 3D for your card quite well. http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/X11R7.0/doc/html/radeon.4.html

   You eschew the preferred way of installing the driver, because official repos are “useless,” and decide to install manually, virtually guaranteeing that you’ll fuck your machine up on the next version upgrade.

   You don’t like to follow howtos or the recommended way of doing things, apparently. Sorry Linux didn’t work out for you, but I’m not surprised.

   Posted by Daeng Bo on 3-Jan-2008 at 6:24 pm

2. Daeng Bo: I’m prepared to configure available options to make things more usable but I’m not prepared to wade through lengthy instructions (such as the openSUSE ATI driver page) when it still isn’t enough for Compiz to work. I’m sorry, but if I follow a long list of steps, carry them out to the letter (like I did with openSUSE), then it’s not too much to ask for a working driver at the end of the ordeal (especially after seeing Kubuntu and PCLOS work with the same card). The open-source driver, at least that which is offered by openSUSE, does not support 3D on my Radeon X300 at all.

   After a while you begin to doubt the efficacy of video driver HOWTOs written by all and sundry which is why I chose the ATI installer with Linux Mint. Apart from Mint using a desktop environment with the bare minimum of options configurable by the user, Compiz worked great with the ATI-provided driver. Why should a video driver ensure that I’ll fuck my machine on the next version upgrade? Seems to suggest that Linux is incredibly fragile indeed!

   Posted by Marc on 3-Jan-2008 at 6:35 pm

3. First thing… Ubuntu isn’t on your list… why not? It’s the second most popular on Distrowatch.com. It uses Gnome and I’ve had excellent success with it (currently using 7.10 release).

   Also, on your “just use XP instead of Vista” comment. You do realize that eventually (probably 2009) Microsoft will force you to upgrade to Vista or choose an alternate OS. It is coming and you really don’t have a choice. I suppose you can sit there and thing that by then MS will have modified Vista to allow an easier transition, but regardless there is a point in time coming that you will be upgrading to Vista… or converting to Linux or Mac OSX… you have no choice.

   Posted by John M. Brown on 3-Jan-2008 at 11:48 pm

4. You are absolutely right on this one.

   I’ve attempted to use Linux for the past two years, and always go back to WinXP or Mac. The reasons are simple: 1) things work, and 2) APPLICATIONS.

   While all these geeks twiddle with their own versions of the OS, no one seems to realize how much we want to actually work with programs. How many variations of the kernel/KDE/Gnome?etc do you really need?

   Just saw an interesting take over on Apple Matters about Apple killing the Linux desktop. Look at iLife, iWork, iTunes, and the overall elegance of the other applications on the platform. Why, pray tell, would I want to do a presentation in OO Impress instead of Keynote? Why would anyone want to create a newsletter in Scibus instead of Pages or the newest Word?

   Linux is great for people who enjoy complex puzzles. Until great apps appear, without Wine or virtual machines, Linux will not be a viable desktop alternative for the masses. While it is fun to rant against things that are not “free,” average Joes are willing to pay for things that work.

   Posted by down8ve on 3-Jan-2008 at 11:59 pm

5. You speak subjectively about things that are a matter of choice. And I totally agree with Daeng Bo.
   You speak about things you have little knowledge and enjoy spreading FUD about them.
   Not one OS or distro is perfect, but each has its strong points that you seem to miss.

   Posted by tallman on 4-Jan-2008 at 12:02 am

6. The problem in your case is between the computer and the chair…

   Posted by reader on 4-Jan-2008 at 12:51 am

7. I’ve used all the distributions You mention without problem. But I’ve done my homework. I read and I know. Don’t make general statements based only on your own experience. There are millions of people working with Linux. Always use “I can” or “I can’t”, “I know” or “I don’t know”, “I want” or “I don’t want”.

   Posted by dedmin on 4-Jan-2008 at 1:16 am

8. most of your complaints are not about linux really, but about compiz which is admittedly beta software…and does a whole ton of things that XP and vista don’t…so why don’t you just lay off compiz for a while?… Linux is still quite usable without it.

   I’m sorry that beta quality software that Microsoft can’t even come close to imitating in the first place is the reason that you’ll drop linux.

   It’s like saying “cool desktop effects don’t work while most everything else does, so I’m going to go back to the other operating system because it doesnt have cool desktop effects and its less configurable in the first place”…brilliant.

   Posted by trashcat on 4-Jan-2008 at 4:23 am

9. “Seems to suggest that Linux is incredibly fragile indeed!” … LOL! No, seriously: don’t you know that Linux is a kernel and that GNU/Linux is an OS with many different flavours? Of course you do! Still, you tell us a tale based on your experience with a few distros and you draw some conclusions on “Linux”. Linux isn’t fragile; some newer distros are. It happened to me that Linux worked better than Win Xp on some hardware, for instance a 2005 Asus L3000d laptop. The fact is that the Linux community seems to be committed to “conquer the desktop scene”, but it’s actually a wrong goal. Linux is, and will continue to be, an elite product for desktop end-users, since it requires some PATIENCE and some genuine WILL TO LEARN. Both things are hard to get in the “access era”….

   Posted by effex on 4-Jan-2008 at 5:05 am

10. I have installed all the Player Packages read there descriptions and then uninstalled them with no issues on PCLinuxOS. The only way I found to duplicate you issue was to uninstall a package called xinetd. It has a close name to a play called xine but it’s actually a replacement for inetd which is unistalled would cause this issue. The only thing I can think that you did was select this package for uninstall without reading its description to know what it was. This leads to the ntfs issue and why it’s not enabled by default. There are files that can be deleted by accident on your ntfs partition that will render your windows install useless. If by accident you were to delete that file just like you blamed PCLinuxOS for the uninstall package issue you would most likely blame it for messing up your windows install. For now it’s really more of a CYA issue. If you know how to install and uninstall packages without messing up your system hopefully you will be able to use ntfs r/w support carefully. Like with anything new we must take precautions to learn instead of blame :)

    Posted by Jeremiah on 4-Jan-2008 at 5:05 am

11. Marc…

    I have used Linux for over two years now, in 2006 I dual-booted xp and elive (Linux with enlightenment desktop) but only used xp about ten times that year. I then switched to PCLinuxOS, because I got wifi connection during bootup; which neither elive OR xp could consistently deliver! …and then got rid of xp totally!
    Of course, my laptop manufacturer (averatec) helped with the decision… because they didn’t AND WOULDN’T provide a xp CD set for my model. Instead the restore/recover hidden partition on my hd was getting larger, soon 10% of my 80gig hd space.

    It isn’t that xp didn’t work…just seemed that I didn’t own or have total control over ‘my’ computer. And that doesn’t include the anti-virus and update concerns, that takes cpu cycles and bandwidth and even more hd space!

    I am a mature Linux user, in that, like others, we won’t force you to switch OS’ just to switch. Use what works and is comfortable for you and you need to be productive in work or in play.
    I just wanted others who read your comment section to know that PCLinuxOS has been a solid, fast and supportive system for me (and that includes the forum and chat channel, as you reported.)
    But then, I also tried about ten other Linux’s before settling on PCLinuxOS…for me it was the one that worked with all my hardware, and my needs.

    Posted by Doug Jenkins on 4-Jan-2008 at 7:42 am

12. Marc – Sorry you didn’t get a positive vibe with Linux. I agree with your SuSE assessment – that distro is a nightmare. Regarding Mint, I use it for my desktop, even though I much prefer KDE (and I am looking forward to KDE 4.0). I require 3D acceleration for games in Linux, so I install the proprietary ATI driver for my X1950XT. How do I do this? The only sane way possible – I use Alberto Milone’s “Envy” package. It’s even in the Mint repositories if you don’t want to download the .deb file yourself. If it wasn’t for Envy, I wouldn’t use Linux. Period.

    Link to Envy: http://albertomilone.com/nvidia_scripts1.html

    Don’t worry about the nvidia part of the URL; it’s for both companies.

    Give it a go and see if it gives you what you need. Click on the “Get Envy New” option for Linux Mint 4.0.

    Gary

    Posted by Gary on 4-Jan-2008 at 7:57 am

13. How long have you been fiddling with flavours of Windows Mark? Or did that always just work for you?

    We’ll be seeing more posts like this – people like their comfort zone.

    Posted by Mark on 4-Jan-2008 at 3:19 pm

14. Sorry this did not work out for you. Actually, I feel quite the opposite. After using Linux, I cannot stand to use any version of Windows. Slow, unstable, and I cannot stand waiting for 30 sec to 2 minutes just to wait for Windows Explorer to wake up (File Manager).

    I too prefer KDE, but I started using Linux Mint and although it is Gnome based, it works flawlessly for me. I have not had one single issue. Beryl works well (but I really have no use for it), and it is fast, secure, and ultra stable.

    Different strokes for different folks, but Linux Mint 4.0 is the absolute best desktop I have ever used.

    Posted by Paul on 4-Jan-2008 at 3:34 pm

15. Just use Debian Etch. Use the vesa driver until AMD/ATI get their open source version tuned up. If you do have some problem, check out http://bugs.debian.org or http://linuxquestions.org Debian has the largest repository of software and a good bug-tracking system.

    Posted by Robert Pogson on 4-Jan-2008 at 3:42 pm

16. Simply u can’t be another guy n other guy can’t be u

    Posted by Sunil on 4-Jan-2008 at 4:22 pm

17. fyi, I’ve LinuxMint from CD a dozen times on an ATI based laptop and enabled Compiz by first installing the fglrx driver using the restricted-manager then logging out. I then installed the xserver-glx because the ati driver doesn’t work with AIGL. Because I don’t like to reboot, I logged back into a failsafe terminal to remove the loaded radeon and drm modules, load the fglrx driver from /lib/modules/”kernelname”/volatile/fglrx.ko.

    logging out of the terminal and back to the default gnome desktop allows me to then enable full appearance glitz.

    IMO, it’s actually pretty decent but I too prefer KDE but haven’t tried installing KDE on the LiveCD( apt-get install kubuntu-desktop ) but you might if so inclined.

    Posted by doug on 4-Jan-2008 at 4:28 pm

18. You need to learn how to use linux. No wonder you are “distro hopping” all the way back to XP. Everyone complains about how hard it is to install these things. Of anything, XP is picky.

    Otherwise why would these “finicky” distros be around? Because people couldn’t stand XP or windows. Xp won’t run on my computer. Linux does.

    Posted by Laryssa on 4-Jan-2008 at 4:46 pm

19. I have used Windows from 3.1. I have used linux also. I don’t try to switch anyone over to anything. What I do let them know is what my experience has been. Most people will not try it because like some of you have pointed out people get into a comfort zone. If it works right out of the box even with errors and other things they will use it. Not because they are “stupid” but many people just don’t want to spend the time tweaking things… and from my experience there is a lot of tweaking with linux. However that being said once you get it done and done right then you have a very stable much more secure system than windows. At this time Linux is not for everyone and sadly it never will be. I do believe it will grow in popularity though once it is more “out of the box” ready. There are some distros that I personally have not worked with but one that is close to windows is Linspire. It is not open source, but does cost a lot less than Windows… at least the last time I checked it did.

    Fighting with people just does not do anything. If the person feels XP is what they want to use then ok…. use it. I have a dual boot. Win XP and Ubuntu, with both the KDE and Gnome… I tinker and play around with both. (including tweaking xp to where it does not always look like xp out of the box but a Highly customized version

    Posted by Jon on 4-Jan-2008 at 4:59 pm

20. In defense of Compiz, it really isn’t designed for KDE – it seems to be fairly gnome-oriented. KDE’s fancy effects are coming with KDE4, which will probably be usable mid-2008.

    Ubuntu, to my knowledge, is the only distribution with success at Compiz. Not Kubuntu, which doesn’t seem to like it. Apart from that, you could be right that a couple of months work is needed. I would have liked to have seen vanilla Ubuntu on the list – if you don’t like orange, the theme isn’t hard to change.

    Posted by Bystander on 4-Jan-2008 at 5:04 pm

21. Try Sabayon linux http://sabayonlinux.org. I am a big kubuntu guy. I like running fluxbox but will run beryl/compiz to show off the eyecandy to folks. If you want trouble free kde with beryl goodness. Sabayon is the way to go. Even from the live CD, it just works. It is based on gentoo, so you cant have everything.

    Posted by Fred on 4-Jan-2008 at 5:42 pm

22. >> After this fiasco, I began to doubt PCLOS. An old friend always used to say that the RPM packaging system was evil and that DEB was better. Maybe he’s right because simply marking a few video players for uninstallation shouldn’t completely break your system like that.

    The friend is correct? What in the world made that author, just out of the blue, think rpms were the issue? Clearly the author is a genius that goes where others have never been. I mean to touch Linux is a sign of genius. But I still have to question the inspiration for blaming rmps. Call me a doubting Thomas.

    The author does identify one interesting weakness of PCLOS and maybe of other distros. Forgetting for a moment that there may have been an error somewhere, it’s possible that PCLOS and others allow you to hose your system. Some work to prevent this, to always be sure that the user maintains a minimal system would be useful.

    Or more specifically, a distro in “NEWBIE” mode should not allow the system to be hosed. But this would mean not allowing root access to NEWBIE mode users. That’s fine. So when a person does become root, after leaving NEWBIE mode, they would have been /would be warned, maybe by reminding them that they should have a backup before proceeding.

    I will suggest that the author write a piece about how Ginsu knives stink because a user managed to stick one right into one side of his heart and out the other.

    Yes, some people really mishandle Ginsu knives, but most do not. And a computer is much less dangerous to one’s heart than Ginsu knives. I’d say if kindergarteners can have fun on Linux, so can most people (at least for a few hours each day).

    The author also makes the mistake of implying that a little bit of perserverance will not have a pay-off. I think the folks in Redmond should start using this form of attack more aggressively (they have very little to work with I know). They should take cues from articles like this one.

    The attack is to implicitly assume there is nothing worthwhile from getting a Linux distro working; hence the possibility that there might very well be a burp somewhere along the way should be reason enough to stay with the meager jail cells, high costs, and burps and flatulence firings of XP.

    I mean who wants to do anything without having Microsoft know about it? Not me. I love how my deceitful friends out west like to control what I know and what I can do. Who wants a system that is more stable or has new and cool things (more powerful apps for free than you can shake a leg at) and is growing much faster than XP and Vista or anything else Microsoft offers? Who? Certainly not me, nope. I don’t want any of that.

    It’s obvious that the author should have paid someone $30 to set things up for him/her but apparently ran out of money perhaps having just forked over several hundred to get an extension license to MS Office for a few more years. Sucker (some might say), Openoffice is free forever and has been improving at a faster rate than MS Office. But Openoffice is just the tip of the iceberg. Oh, brother, and you will never know.

    Finally, the authors ultimate conclusion id dead on. Suckers, stay with XP under all costs!!!!! The minows in the creek will bite your toes if you venture outside! Beware of the Linuxy minows in the creek!! Ooooooooo!!!!

    I love the great outdoors. And I love the palaces beyond the horizon Linux affords me, but then, I value control and freedomware and would not mind occasionally spending 30 bucks to enter a new world.

    Posted by Jose_X on 4-Jan-2008 at 5:51 pm

23. And Windows XP works?

    - Windows has no software on it (it comes more barren the the sahara desert).
    - All commerical pieces of sotware on windows look different. This is indeed for the novice user – not.
    - You cannot install more than 30 pieces of software on windows before your system starts going to hell and you have to reinstall.
    - no security what so ever.

    Give me a break. Just say you have no grey matter and don’t want to learn anything and be honest (at least with yourself if not with others).

    Posted by Mark Veltzer on 4-Jan-2008 at 5:57 pm

24. On your comment about kde 4:

    KDE4 is nothing but new technology. The taskbar, and the desktop itself are a new technology called plasma, they are not a rewrite of old code it’s all brand new. Kicker (kde3 taskbar) and Kdesktop were eliminated. configurability is coming.

    Furthermore, KDE 4 was ported to QT4, which was a huge task and took years to complete, and it worked out great, it’s a HUGE HUGE HUGE change in technology, so before you spread a bunch of crap that the only new thing is the widgets and panel, research something. Thats the first rule of journalism.

    Also, years have gone into development of Oxygen, the widget set and icon set of KDE 4.

    Don’t knock something if you only used it for 3 minutes. Also, the version on the live CD is nothing like the version available from SVN which will be released.

    Posted by Stephen on 4-Jan-2008 at 6:04 pm

25. For not having the support of many hardware and software vendors, I think Linux is doing a damn fine job attempting to install on every possible configuration.

    Posted by Andrew on 4-Jan-2008 at 6:08 pm

26. 5 distro’s in 1 week….that’s a little more than one distro per day… I’m sorry it didn’t work, but I’m absolutely not surprised…. In plus, it is not realy fair judging Linux (better:GNU/Linux) by 3D effects, whereas these are not even available with XP.
    I have just one tip: get your balls together and force yourself to use ONE distribution (doesn’t matter which one, though reading your article maybe PCLOS is a good place to start) for an entire month. No switching back to Windows, just use this one distribution. In this way you will be forced to make things work and you will have the opportunity to experience the cool part of GNU/Linux. Believe me I also fucked up my system a few times, due to stupid mistakes on my part, but in the end I am a happy Linux user now!
    Cheers,
    Maarten

    Posted by Maarten Kooiker on 4-Jan-2008 at 6:08 pm

27. >> While it is fun to rant against things that are not “free,” average Joes are willing to pay for things that work.

    Either you have not tried Linux or your concept of work doesn’t apply to XP? I can’t tell which.

    Oh, wait, you advocate a Mac not an XP. I have not used a Mac in ages though I saw one on display. My problem with the Mac world is the lack of options and that you don’t know how much Jobs and friends are spying on you or filtering what you experience or would be capable of experiencing. With Linux, the limits are documented and well understood and can be shut off.

    Granted, most people will initially be happier with a Mac just for the sake of simplicity, but aren’t there cheaper ways to have simplicity?

    And what happens when you outgrow it? What about all the things Steve Jobs does not want to support for you because they compete with his high-priced applications and gear? What then?

    I know, get a Mac to use when you feel brain dead, and get Linux to use when you want to try new things and have gotten board of the Mac.

    Posted by Jose_X on 4-Jan-2008 at 6:16 pm

28. Sorry it didn’t work for you.

    Personally, I’ve battled some of the quirks of some Linux distros, but frankly Linux and all of it’s different flavors has put fun back into computing for me. Windows is a stale “Average Joe” world of blandness and predictability accompanied by the experience of just “going along for the ride” as opposed to “gaining complete command over the computer, the Operating System, and the overall experience”. I like being captain of my own computer ship. It’s just my personal preference and Linux, regardless of how I run it with whatever distro or window manager fits the bill nicely for my computing work as other tools do in my professional life. I prefer to control my ship myself rather than letting one or many large companies control me and my experiences

    Enjoy your uneventful Windows ride through a boring computer landscape. It’s easy and effortless with very few surprises, isn’t it?.

    I opt for a more eventful, challenging and rewarding computer experience. It’s just more fun to be challenged at getting past the mundane world that the “Average Joe” is forced to live in so that we can do and experience things that can’t be done with the “one size fits all” system offered by Microsoft. Do you take pride in being “Average Joe”? Have fun now.
    Bob

    Posted by Robert on 4-Jan-2008 at 7:18 pm

29. yeah you’d be better suited to Gnome. Try Ubuntu! Not much to complain about there. Or wait 7 days ’till KDE 4 comes out! Huge changes

    Posted by Rich on 4-Jan-2008 at 7:37 pm

30. I’m sorry that you are a complete idiot. Try GNOME, after all, the authors develop the desktop manager for idiots like yourself.

    Posted by Ryan on 4-Jan-2008 at 7:42 pm

31. Hello Marc,

    It is obvious you wanted to try Linux because you say the kool compiz-fusion FX. This (sadly) seems to be a main attraction for most Windows users that come to Linux for the first time.

    Take note that you experience does not mention Ubuntu ( which in my opinion is the easiest to use Distro out there, yes it uses Gnome hense why you bailed on trying it out. Funny, yet you tried Mint/Gnome Linux. )

    Regarding your Video Play back issues, in Ubuntu at least, if you try to play a vid that it can not Ubuntu will give you a Ok or Cancel pop up option to auto install and config the codec so you can watch your video. This works for wmv, mpeg, avi, ogg … and I think even .mov

    If you do not like the ’skin’ tone of Ubuntu.. simply CHANGE it. iT IS EASY TO CHANGE IT TO YOUR DE FACTO blue!

    Yes, I agree that if you try to mess with installing software (outside its packaging system) and you do not know what your doing, you will kill your system. That is why Ubuntu enfoces SUDO as a pre command to indicate to the user that this command will do harm if you do not know what you are going. It does require a password so it makes it obvious it may be a ‘risky’ command if you fsck it up.

    I myself had problems with Ubuntu 7.10 installing on my dx6000 HP Pavilion Laptop… so I installed PCLOS and even the wireless worked out-of-the-box. Altho the sound does not.

    See the point is this.

    Linux/GNU/open Source is FREE software, make by people in their spare time. ( Yes corps are getting in on the action like Redhat, Novell and Conanical to name just a few. ) But, if one distro does ot work for you as it did not for my laptop, i simply tried another distro that DID work.

    How much did this cost me?

    0$ no money…. yes I am a linux programmer and so I know how to deal with Linux when it gets funky with you. Most do not … however with the new generation of kids growing up with computers they will no doubt have more computer intuition that sadly you may not posses right now.

    Linux has so many choices… you dog that in your article. In fact the massive choices are beyond what you know by far, trust me I find new Open Source based projects and goods everyday I never knew existed. MythBuntu, Linux Media Center… and all those distros.

    Each distro helps the others, and right now deb and apt-get seem to be favorites for the packaging systems.

    Linux is like a deep ocean with life forms (open source projects) swimming at every level if it’s deepths… it is just now emerging as a Desktop and that is a pretty good feat.

    Just you see… anyone willing to

    a) Pay for windows and get viruses is out of their mind.
    b) pay over priced software from apple that boxes you in

    or

    c) Eventually Linux (Open Source) will be the answer to all software endeavours.

    Posted by Matt K. on 4-Jan-2008 at 9:31 pm

32. Marc, you might be better served by just accepting these distros as is. How important are spinning cubes for you, really? I use a number of different distributions at home, work and on the road. All of my computers are rock stable and hassle free. That’s because 98% of what I need in most distros is already there. I don’t feel the need to try out new cutting edge window managers.

    Starting out your first week with Linux by trying to make a major change to the OS seems like a recipe for disaster to me. Even if you were successful in getting Compiz set up do you think it’s going to be completely bug free and stable at this stage?

    Most of the distros you listed above are wonderfully stable and have a ton of great applications included. As is, I think any of them are more than adequate replacements for Windows. No major tinkering needed. If you do decide to get your hands dirty and pop the hood than please don’t have the impression that it’s going to be easy. To fully understand a distro built on Linux takes years. Save yourself some frustration and leave the spinning cubes alone. Install a distro, spend a little time finding the applications you need and then enjoy using an OS that is secure, stable and doesn’t get in your way.

    Posted by JDW on 4-Jan-2008 at 9:51 pm

33. I am reluctantly coming to a similar conclusion. I have been using Kubuntu exclusively for about a year (reasons being that I prefer KDE, the deb packaging and the support for *ubuntu on the web is fantastic). I enjoy using it and will continue to do so, as it keeps getting better.

    Unfortunately, despite the improvements in Wine, I still have a battle on my hands to play games modern Windows games (other than World of Warcraft, which works flawlessly) and most won’t work at all. For this reason, I will be re-partitioning my hard drive to reinstall XP alongside Kubuntu. Until games producers start making their products cross-platform, or Wine makes a leap in compatibility, I’ll be stuck with M$.

    But Vista will never get within a mile of my pc :-)

    Posted by Colin on 4-Jan-2008 at 10:16 pm

34. Dude your using Compiz first of all. Thats beta software so please dont start dissing it when it starts crashing on you. Its happened to all of us and we bothered to look it up and fix it.
    Also just use Envy. It will save you time and patience. Even if you never heard of it, IM CERTAIN AT LEAST ONE PERSON WOULD MENTION IT. That is if you did go to the all the IRC channels of the distros you reviewd.

    ..Peace…..KUBUNTU FTW…

    Posted by JT on 4-Jan-2008 at 10:23 pm

35. try ubuntu (the normal version, not kubuntu) it does work nicely, and if your main complaint is that you don’t like brown then you can change the theme.

    Posted by me on 4-Jan-2008 at 10:35 pm

36. Clearly another Windows “Power” user.

    Hey Marc, Microsoft is the reason you suck at computers.

    Anyone who finds Linux too difficult has only one person to blame.

    Posted by Rob on 4-Jan-2008 at 10:36 pm

37. some good points – typical linux distributions include
    way too many choices (e.g. sound mixers). They should
    make an editorial decision of one preferred version and
    make sure it works.

    On the other hand…
    Windows makes sense to you only because you’re used to it.
    I’ve always used unix-based OSs, and find windows incredibly
    frustration. The control panels are an illogical mess,
    lots of different places to find things and you’re never
    sure if you’ve explored every option. Basic things like
    rename seem risky, delete takes a reaallly long time,

    and worst of all, windows systems seem to “rot” over time
    as more new software gets installed – everyone I know who
    has windows is always buying a new computer every 6 months.

    I switched from linux to a mac a few years ago (still
    use Linux at work though). The mac is linux done right.

    Posted by mobygeek on 4-Jan-2008 at 10:50 pm

38. It’s too bad that your experience was so negative Marc. You still haven’t addressed the fact that Ubuntu is not on this list. Sure, it uses Gnome, but based on your complaints, you want Gnome. Ubuntu includes restricted drivers(closed source), so you can use Compiz right out of the box or you can run envy or manually install the latest release of drivers. I switched to Ubuntu about two years ago from Debian (there was a terrible period in between where I used Red Hat) and I’m forced to use Windows at work, so I’m very familiar with all three operating systems. They all work well enough, as they’re just interfaces with the computer, but Ubuntu stays out of my way better than anything I’ve tried thus far. I truly hope you’ll try it before throwing in the towel and going back to Windows. If you do, I wish you the best of luck and you have my sympathy.

    Posted by Jesse on 4-Jan-2008 at 11:37 pm

39. Ah, now I see. Another blog post includes some info. If anybody else is thrown off, read this:
    http://marcfearby.com/computing/the-migration-of-a-fussy-windows-user-to-linux

    Posted by Jesse on 4-Jan-2008 at 11:40 pm

40. I installed Ubuntu 7.10, with no hitches at all. Put the CD installed booted, switched on restricted drivers and its all worked. I will agree that operating systems based on the Linux kernel still need a lot of work and obviously its gonna take longer to get on par with windows or mac due to the fact they dont have millions of $$$ getting pumped into it every year. Its gonna take longer if people, like yourself, are to lazy to give it a shot and help the community out. If you don’t like Linux don’t go ranting about how shit you think it is, just keep your mouth shut, and use Windows.

    Posted by Johanson on 4-Jan-2008 at 11:52 pm

41. I use a default Ubuntu 7.10 on my system. Compiz just works as I deliberately bought an OS less system with Intel graphics so I could use an open source 3D hardware enabled video driver when I installed Gutsy. OK I have been a Linux user for six years and have a background in Unix but Ubuntu is so easy now it just works.

    I have to use XP at work and its painful compared to Ubuntu. It’s a pleasure to get home and use amodern operating system compared to the legacy crap I have to use at work.

    Posted by Chemicalscum on 5-Jan-2008 at 12:21 am

42. If you like KDE, try Mepis. It really works much better than Kubuntu. http://www.mepis.org

    Posted by Bobber on 5-Jan-2008 at 12:28 am

43. “Why, pray tell, would I want to do a presentation in OO Impress instead of Keynote? Why would anyone want to create a newsletter in Scibus instead of Pages or the newest Word?”

    Because unlike those other applications, Scribus, OpenOffice and others are free in Linux which includes free updates?

    Posted by Lee on 5-Jan-2008 at 12:32 am

44. Compiz-fusion (or Beryl) does not define the capabilities of Linux. It is just an add-on for eye-candy and productivity if you can manage it. I use it on Ubuntu 7.10 and it works just fine. I haven’t had any problems with linux as an OS and can’t see myself every switching back to windows. I might consider Mac OS X but I am wary of vendor lock-in. I like my freedom and the ability to choose. That is what linux and the different GNU/Linux distributions are about.

    Your distribution reviews have been limited to enabling eye-candy and nothing to do with actual GNU/Linux issues like wireless connectivity or programs for work. This review is just a rant about getting 3d effects to work on linux. When you couldn’t manage to get it to work the way you liked it, you turned back to Windows XP, which I must add doesn’t have 3d effects. You then advise others not to use linux but stick to windows because of this.

    WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by Jon on 5-Jan-2008 at 12:42 am

45. Doesn’t surprise me that you have failed miserably! I have been using Linux for many years and haven’t gone to Windows except in supporting customers.

    Posted by Gobetno on 5-Jan-2008 at 1:24 am

46. Sorry you seem to have had bad experiences. I myself prefer PCLinuxOS and love it. The only other that comes close for me is SimplyMEPIS, which you didn’t mention (it is KDE on default, AND is .deb-based which you want)
    – down8ve (comment 4) I don’t understand your comment AT ALL. There are no apps ? this is not 1999, there are plenty of fully functional applications in all areas (okay except games perhaps). Which apps are you missing? Possibly you expect not an application but a “big name” program such as Photoshop. If you spend a little time searching, there are a few programs to do what you want.
    In my experience, Linux’s big weakness is troubles with sound support in various ways.

    Posted by Tom G on 5-Jan-2008 at 2:31 am

47. I’ve been using Xandros since May. I’ve had none of the problems you’ve experienced. It’s on a dual boot system. I have to use XP now and then, perhaps three to four hours a week. All the other times, the Xandros experience has been just excellent.

    Posted by Dr Joe on 5-Jan-2008 at 2:47 am

48. Kubunbtu: Did you think abut installing Ubuntu with the KDE desktop environment?
    PCLOS:
    For your nvidia card, why didn’t you just use Synaptic to install the nVidia driver? That seems to be your mistake.
    As for removing the video player, you removed much more than that, and it seems you didn’t read the package list Synaptic provided. Thats is given to you so you don’t remove things you need to keep. This again seems to be your mistake.
    … so you began to doubt PCLOS because of your own mistakes. Interesting.

    And why do you think a person using a Linux based distro would expect to be able to write to an NTFS partition by? I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that I could read it, by default.

    You should realize that Linux based distro are not Windows. They do not act the same. Do not expect them to. Do not confuse familiarity for ease of use.

    As for XP, how long do you think Microsoft will support it? It seems they are fighting to force vendors, customers and users to move to Vista.

    Posted by Rick on 5-Jan-2008 at 3:27 am

49. Is this some flame wars bait?

    I rather spend 1 or 2 days fiddling with config options and enjoy a lifetime of a secure, virus-free, solid OS than spend 2 hours installing an OS that will have me rebooting, disinfecting and reinstalling for a lifetime.

    The first thing to do after choosing a distro is CHECK IF YOUR HARDWARE IS COMPATIBLE. I’ve had my share of device problems, all because of the Windows-centric hardware (it’s cheaper to make the OS do all the processing instead of adding the proper hardware).

    In time distros have improved the overall install experience, and will continue to do so. In time even the I-don’t-wanna-read-procedures-and-manuals users will be able to complete a successful install.

    Meanwhile, enjoy your virus zoo, rebooting and reinstalling while I enjoy my Mandriva desktop.

    Posted by Noel on 5-Jan-2008 at 4:13 am

50. Sorry it didn’t work out for you. Perhaps computers are too much for you, and you should instead buy yourself a nice clean sheet of paper and a new pencil (Ihear the Ticoderoga #5 got rave reviews in luddite today). Just a few tips to help you find joy.

    Posted by Joe User on 5-Jan-2008 at 4:57 am

51. My experiences are to the contrary. I run openSUSE without any problems and I have Mandriva and kubuntu running on two other PC’s as well as in Virtual Machines on top of openSUSE together with PCLinuxOS, freespire, SimplyMepis and Sabayon. I also have installed openSUSE for a number of people and SimplyMepis for one other person – all these people are relatively novices, yet they don’t have any problems and use a multiplicity of applications.
    Windows XP on the other hand has been a royal pain in the rear with the number of calls I get from people when it inevitably croaks. I don’t have Windows of any description installed on my PC’s and I’ve started to refuse to look at any Windows problems people ask me to. Let Microsoft fix their own dross.
    BTW I’ve spent days on the internet unsuccessfully trying to find a modern laptop without Windows Vista installed as I don’t want no piggin Windows and I don’t want Microsoft to drag me into their net and boost their sales figures with something I don’t want. So for now at least I shall have to do without a new laptop or accept Hobson’s choice or as they used to say in the old Soviet Union, you are free to choose any car you like as long as it’s a Lada and likewise I am free to choose any laptop I like as long as it has Windows Vista installed on it.

    Posted by Sid Boyce on 5-Jan-2008 at 7:56 am

52. I wish people would stop this crap. You know I actually TRY to buy into this linux doesn’t work crap and then install it on another PC and SURPRISE!!!….it works. I have had to do no more tweaking to get everything working with Linux than I have Windows. In fact there are things that I never got working with Windows like my HP all-in-one (with driver disk) yet it worked as soon as I plugged it into my linux box.

    I’ll give you a hint. If you don’t want linux to work then it will not work. So don’t bother trying it and then ranting about what you set out to have fail failing. Its rather silly to read to all of the people that have their linux desktops up and running. And it doesn’t take some ridiculous amount of tweaking and adjusting to get it usable (internet, word processing, etc.)

    As for apps I have abandoned ALL Windows apps and only start up a Windows VM to access one Windows only system at work from home. Maybe Apple has some nice apps but I’m not going to pay the pretty penny for a Mac when the apps I have right here do way more than I need. I don’t have to tweak any of the apps…they just work.

    And please tell me the guy removed xinetd instead of xine and is complaining about it. I’m not saying its a mistake that no one could make. But its just as easy if not easier to hose your Windows box through such a mistake. But once again if you do it on linux then linux isn’t ready…if you do it on Windows its just a mistake.

    Posted by Phil on 5-Jan-2008 at 9:13 am

53. In deed I have read all the article an it is unfair, as You choose KDE and do not evaluated GNOME or FCE alternatives on ubuntu.

    I also do not see any comment on GOS wish is ubuntu with google app integrated

    Thanks God , Windows is not a car or plenty people had been kill by “accidental bugs”

    The history himself of the development of windows is obscure.

    Look Mac what they choose? to run?? LINUX

    I strongly recommend you to do a more long evaluation of the distros

    Posted by J. Bracca on 5-Jan-2008 at 11:12 am

54. Marc,
    I suggest you take your ADD meds FIRST. Then give Gnu/Linux a try – one distro at a time.

    Posted by Don on 5-Jan-2008 at 2:17 pm

55. John M. Brown: I do have an ISO of Ubuntu 7.10 but haven’t done much with it because Nautilus is about as simplified and dumbed-down as the Mac Finder. Thunar is a mild improvement but not that much better. Konqueror is the best Linux file manager that I’ve yet found. I’ll get at least another year out of XP before it becomes decrepit. I knew somebody who only upgraded from 2000 to
    Vista last year, so I might get some good times out of XP until at least 2010. Maybe by then your average Linux distro won’t need so much tinkering out of the box.

    down8ve: If the Mac Finder wasn’t as retarded as Nautilus, I could modify OSX’s keyboard shortcuts, and Apple released a Mac about as powerful as the iMac but without an integrated screen such that I could upgrade my own video card and hard drive, I could buy a Mac tomorrow. Path Finder is nice but it can’t replace the Finder completely.

    dedmin: One shouldn’t be limited to the perpendicular pronoun when writing of one’s Linux experience. If things are unintelligible out of the box and require endless tinkering and editing of config files, then I think it’s OK to make broader statements.

    trashcat: If Compiz is beta software then why do most Linux distros feature screenshots displaying Compiz so prominently on their home pages? Seems a bit dishonest to me. Bait people with dazzling eye-candy then let them down when they realise that it doesn’t smell like roses.

    effex: I did know that Linux, per se, refers only to the kernel, but most people simply use the term to describe the operating system as a whole, as did I in my post. If Linux is an elite product that requires patience, then the users who keep saying it’s fit for their grandmothers need to censor themselves a little.

    Jeremiah: Maybe these distros aimed at making Linux easier for new users needs a “readme” on the desktop that explains all these things that have been turned off by default. Having to hunt around for a fix that should be there by default simply adds to the frustration and the impression that Linux is crap. I definitely didn’t uninstall xinetd because I would then have had to re-install the package to get kdeinit working.

    Doug Jenkins: If it wasn’t for kdeinit being busted because of the uninstallation of a video player, I would have been left with a better impression. Compared to openSUSE and Kubuntu, PCLOS is miles ahead, though.

    Gary: I remember reading a review of Linux Mint that questioned the inclusion of Envy by reason of it being deprecated? I don’t know the whole story but I did notice the icon on the menu. Didn’t fully understand what it was for – “Envy” isn’t particularly self-explanatory :-)

    Mark: I’ve used Windows 3.11, 95, 95 OSR2, Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, Windows 2000 Professional, and Windows XP. All of them had video drivers that worked easily and were a breeze to install and all of them (apart from Windows 3.11) had a similar file manager that would let me draw selection rectangles around files in details view (a feature which Nautilus seems to think is too advanced for a user to have).

    Paul: I agree that Linux Mint is a very fine system. I just don’t like GNOME much, especially the retarded file manager and the desktop icons that you can’t put near the edge of the screen (which I do so that I can still see important desktop icons when I have windows open).

    Robert Pogson: You are kidding, right? Use the VESA driver? As for Debian, I remember dabbling with it back in the bo/hamm/slink days and dreaming of woody, which took an eternity to come out. Debian are far too slow to release upgrades and their fundamental opposition to anything that’s not GPL says I won’t be having much fun with that distro!

    doug: So the default X server won’t work and you have to know to go an install xserver-glx? This is my problem with Linux. There’s too many cryptic package names you have to know to get things to work that should be done for you by the control center. It’s almost like the distros of old, where you get menu icons for all sorts of programs whether they were installed on your system or not. It’s your problem if you didn’t know you had to install something that the GUI leads you to believe is as easy as one or two clicks.

    Laryssa: I could probably settle into one distro within a week, but I was curious to see if any of them were decent out of the box. The answer is an emphatic “no”, unfortunately. They all require a degree of tinkering and editing config files and no matter how many reply here saying “have you tried distro XYZ” not one of them are going to be any better or worse in the long run.

    Jon: Linux (and the Mac) would be more popular if their respective creators were cognisant of people’s “comfort zones” and at least made it easier for newcomers. Having to go to the lengths I’ve gone to get simple things going isn’t going to coax too many people out of their comfort zones (until there are no further updates for XP and it becomes a trojan/spyware/virus magnet more than it currently is).

    Bystander: As I’ve stated before, the vanilla Ubuntu isn’t going to be my Linux distro because the GNOME philosophy is far too Mac-like in that the user shouldn’t be able to customise things as much as he or she can in KDE. If people want to live in a default environment, good on them, but why should preference screens be so spartan for people that prefer things a little different?

    Fred: From what I understand about Gentoo, it’s more for people that prefer to compile everything, so a distro based on the über-nerd’s distro of choice doesn’t really sound like a good choice if I value my time.

    Jose_X: You just might be a bigger crack-pot than me :-) I stand by my assertion that uninstalling user-space software should not break you system. I can add/remove things in XP all the time and still get reboot and log into my desktop every time.

    Mark Veltzer: I have about 100 programs and utilities installed in Windows and it works fine. Sure, I begin to feel “dirty” after six months or so and roll-back to a nicely-configured Acronis image, but that’s just my preference. The number of comments I’ve read that say upgrading a Linux distro isn’t recommended too widely cancels-out any perceived downside to me restoring a disk-image with similar frequency.

    Stephen: The KDE folks will lose any chance they might have had to defend KDE4 if they release it as 4.0.0 any day now and claim that “KDE 4.0.0 != KDE4″. As far as I and the rest of the world are concerned, a point-zero release should be fairly feature-complete but not necessarily bug free. From what I’ve seen of the 2007-12-17 live CD, it’s crap. If the Linux community spent less time creating icons and more time making their products usable, the world might just be a better place.

    Maarten Kooiker: At the end of the day I’m not all that fussed on extra eye-candy but I wanted to see how easy it would be to get it to work, mainly because Compiz is the first time my brother has even considered Linux. Since most distro’s are whoring out their releases via Compiz-riddled screenshots, it’s only fair for me to judge them by it.

    Robert: If you enjoy having to pore over lengthy instructions to get simple things working, if you are happy to work for your computer rather than having it work for you, then good on you. Switcing operating systems for most of us isn’t going to happen if it means wasting time with documentation written by every man and his dog to get something to work that shouldn’t be so troublesome (read: openSUSE’s ATI driver install page).

    Rich: I have looked at Ubuntu’s live CD and didn’t like it. GNOME is for idiots happy to do things the way Migual de Icaza likes them and not the way the end user might prefer. There’s not much to complain about because there’s not much there. I’m guessing that GNOME must have half the number of configuration options as KDE, which doesn’t have to be a bad thing; users don’t have to bring up preference dialogs if they’re happy with the defaults, so why have so few options in them?

    Ryan: Or idiots such as yourself happy to drink the simpleton’s desktop environment of choice. I’ll bet that if/when you’re a Windows user you’d think that “The Internet” icon was just that, the internet, because it was on you desktop already. Just because you’re happy in the wasteland that is GNOME, doesn’t mean the whole world will be. Even Linus Torvalds himself says GNOME is complete crap compared to KDE, so it’s not just me.

    Matt K: Uninstalling Real Player or Adobe Reader in Windows does not hose my system. One shouldn’t expect the uninstallation, using the package’s own uninstallation information, to completely break the graphical user environment. By the way, I’ve worked in I.T. since 1996 and have a degree in I.T. where I wrote Java Servlets, Perl CGIs, PostgreSQL databases, and .NET web applications. I’m not an idiot, I simply have a low tolerance for crap that breaks easily when it shouldn’t or for crap that’s needlessly complicated when there are existing systems that aren’t so.

    JDW: At the end of the day I’m really not going to be using the spinning desktop cube, but I wanted to find the perfect distro with this option because my brother has finally shown interest in Linux because of it. So I thought, hey, I might finally be able to switch to Linux and not feel ashamed of it when my brother sees that having to get some simple eye-candy working (that most distros are keen to show off, by the way) actually turns out to be a nightmare. I’m not going to use something myself that I’m forever going to have to apologise for or make excuses for.

    Colin: Vista isn’t getting within a mile of my PC, either. But I can see the writing on the wall,though. Apple have got about a year release a headless and user-upgradable Mac mini tower with a Finder and keyboard shortcuts that aren’t retarded, or Linux has about the same time to polish things a bit.

    JT: Nobody on #kubuntu, #linuxmint, #suse, or #pclinuxos-support mentioned Envy. It was only in a review of Linux Mint that I heard mention of it. And if Compiz is beta software then why do all the distros try to hawk it as a way of getting people to switch to Linux?

    me: Changing your theme in Ubuntu does not make Nautilus any less retarded, I’m afraid.

    Rob: I don’t suck at computers, but Linux does suck at doing a good job of handling new users.

    mobygeek: If your friends are buying new computers every six months because Windows is getting slow, then I suggest they user their restore disks, and since a lot of people don’t recommend upgrading Linux distros between major releases, then there’s nothing wrong with using a restore disk (or an Acronis image, like me)

    Jesse: You missed the bit where I said GNOME’s file manager is retarded? I’m not switching to a distro where something as important as the file manager is like wading through mush every time you have to use it. Thunar is OK but still nowhere near Konqueror. GNOME isn’t going to cut it, I’m afraid, until they decide to add some user-configurable options to make it customisable.

    Johanson: And if you don’t like Windows then don’t go ranting about how great Linux is. Just keep your mouth shut and use Linux :-)

    Bobber: For now I’m tired of Linux’s moodiness. The rules of statistical sampling would have to say that the five distros I’ve tried are a good representation of the current state of Linux, and I see no reason why trying yet another one is going to make any difference. If Mepis was perfect I would have heard more about it.

    Jon: I can be as picky as I like and if finding a distro where things are easy to setup and I’m not slaving over config files all the time is my defintion of finding a replacement for Windows, then too bad.

    Tom G: You’re spot on about the sound support. The main volume slider (in PCLinuxOS and Linux Mint, from memory) had not effect on adjusting the sound coming from various video and audio applications. What’s the point of having a main volume slider when it’s out to lunch all the time?

    Dr Joe: If my understanding is correct Xandros took up Microsoft’s offer of some “no law suit” patent deal, so, whilst I’m happy to keep using XP for the time being, I don’t like the idea of supporting a distro that has sold out on the patent issue.

    Rick: Um, isn’t Kubuntu for people that want Ubuntu but with KDE? I don’t get, why install Ubuntu, with all that GNOME rubbish, when there’s an Ubuntu with a K in front of it for people that want KDE. What am I missing here? Regarding your statement about video card, it’s an ATI Radeon X300 so I’m not so sure installing a NVidia driver via Synaptic would solve my issues.Besides, PCLOS detected my card fine; it was openSUSE that wouldn’t play ball and I had to install ATI’s driver .run file to get it to work with Linux Mint, after trying the recommended methods that didn’t work.

    Noel: I can’t remember the last time I had a virus in Windows. If I ever had one, it was last century! I would also like to give Mandriva a try but X won’t even load on my machine from the Mandriva 2008 One KDE CD I downloaded (see my comments on Mandriva above for more info).

    Joe User: Loser.

    Sid Boyce: You could get a MacBook or MacBook Pro. I know somebody in Adelaide, South Australia, who said that most Linux nerds at some Linux conference he went to there several years ago had Mac laptops running Linux. No Vista tax there (but it’s a Leopard tax, though)

    Phil: Uninstalling user-space software on Windows has never hosed the operating system such that I couldn’t log into it. I did not uninstall xinetd because I didn’t have to install that to get kdeinit to work.

    Posted by Marc on 5-Jan-2008 at 7:35 pm

56. KDE 4.0.0 has all of the features that were promised from the beginning, They promised a COMPLETE port to QT 4, and the beginning of new technologies.

    And it’s here. The developers spent thousands of hours on this, and you’re knocking it for no reason. The 12-17 live CD is dated. the mos trecent live cd, is also dated. The final version is very stable, completely usable, and fast.

    Thanks for being the worlds biggest dumb ass.

    Posted by Stephen on 5-Jan-2008 at 8:30 pm

57. Your choices are:
    (a) learn to like Linux; and
    (b) migrate to Vista

    Think about what you’ll be doing in 3-5 years time. You can’t stay on xp forever.

    Posted by Brendan Scott on 5-Jan-2008 at 9:12 pm

58. >>I know, get a Mac to use when you feel brain dead, and get Linux to use when you want to try new things and have gotten board of the Mac.

    Posted by down8ve on 6-Jan-2008 at 12:57 am

59. The author looks more experienced than the newbie from whose perspective the distros are evaluated. I read the message of the article as follows: an XP refugee will try 5 distros and return back to XP. This is absolutely true, but meaningless.

    I started using Linux previous century, tried 20+ distros abandoning Linux at first signs of dissatisfaction and coming back whenever I failed to do something in Windows or found an interesting but Linux only toy. I settled double booting XP and Slackware.

    I must say the distros are indeed different since different kind of people gather around each. Thus, it is natural to get back to XP after trying only 5 distros, especially when there is no reason to switch. More so, 4 out of 5 evaluated distros are for “average user”, that is, for nobody in particular. No wonder the end result is XP.

    The problem with the article is that the author thinks it is valid to expect that one can get a free OS. This is not, and never will be, true. One may pay in learning, so that the World trades one free OS and software stack for one, at least potential, developer or tester. Alternatively, pay money. If you have problems installing a driver – BUY a distro where it is installed. You should also get real tech support with it.

    I do not know who fuels this misconception, but it definitely helps MS to keep the monopoly.

    To Matt K.: I believe it is a myth that OSS is made by people in their spare time. Partially it is so, but mainly OSS is made by payed developers and corporations who think that they can get more with cooperation than by selling closed “solutions”. I would add IBM, Oracle and, yes, Sun to your list.

    The difference is that with the “spare time” development the answer is “what did you expect for free”, while with “cooperative development” it is “you are under qualified to join the club”.

    Posted by Andrey on 6-Jan-2008 at 1:48 am

60. Well, I haven’t read all the comments under your blog entry, but here are my initial thoughts:

    I’m sorry for you that you were unable to utilize sufficiently any Linux distribution. It’s typically not so hard for most people. What is it with the strange machine you’ve tried to install a Linux-based system on? Because hardware-related problems really kill any fun and you’ve obviously had a good number of them.

    My experience and experience of my wife, my parents, by sister, two our cousins (14 an 18 yrs), and my old auntie is this [and that makes about 3+2+1+1+2+1, ehm... 10 machines?] – for all these installations Ubuntu Linux (and one Linux Mint too) worked quite well. There were occasionally some rough edges, but I was able to work around them.

    Granted, I have about 5+ years of experience with various Linux systems – be it Gentoo, Debian, Slackware, Mint, PCLinuxOS, Arch and Ubuntu – and I know that simply applying the Windows habits to the Linux world just do not work. Yes, I too have tried once to do everything in rush, I only cursed and despairated, but now it’s different. I just don’t take my Linux troubles too serious nor too personal. These are just computers and operating systems, plus a bunch of end-user applications. Easy here.

    However I am pleased that you’ve tried, and oh boy, you’ve really tried hard. I wish you that when you’d be forced to upgrade from Windows XP in the future (think: end-of-life, no more MS support and updates), you’d find some Linux-based system that would pass your highly put bar of a “fussy Windows user”. Or possibly a new machine with preinstalled and preconfigured system (think: no hardware problems). Happy computing!

    Posted by SirYes on 6-Jan-2008 at 11:05 am

61. You claimed to try the TOP linux distros and yet you ignore FEDORA ? I have been using RedHat since v5.0, there have been a few releases in there that made me wish I had not updated, but NONE OF THEM made me wish I was using WINDOWS.

    B

    Posted by Brent R Brian on 6-Jan-2008 at 12:34 pm

62. Interestingly I have some similar experiences with some Linux distros like you. However if I were you, I will try out Ubuntu. Gnome is not bad at all. For KDE, maybe you want to try out PCLinux OS 2007 again.

    My comments are posted in my blog.
    http://mcuee.blogspot.com/2008/01/interesting-blog-post-distro-hopping.html

    Posted by Xiaofan on 6-Jan-2008 at 1:48 pm

63. J. Bracca: You, like most people, seem to have skipped over the parts where I say GNOME is unacceptable because Nautilus is retarded. I’ve never heard of GOS and I don’t use any of Google’s applications so I see no reason to install it.

    Stephen: It seems the KDE developers have had a little tantrum and seem to think that releasing rubbish as a .0 release is somehow acceptable? If they had kept it in beta then criticisms like mine would only apply to testing code, not something the world is going to take as a mostly-finished product.

    Brendan Scott: I may even switch to Vista after SP1 or SP2. Microsoft might even do the unexpected and listen to criticisms of Vista and make some improvements. If they do, I’m prepared to use it until Linux gets its act together.

    Andrey: If 4 out of the 5 distros I evaluated are for the “average user”, this somehow guarantees I’ll go back to XP? So, unless average users pick distros unfriendly to newbie Windows converts, such as openSUSE or Fedora, then these “average user” distros are for no particular purpose at all, then?

    SirYes: I wouldn’t say my machine is “strange”. Here’s a run-down of the hardware: Intel Q6600 CPU, Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 mobo, 2GB of Corsair PC-5300 memory, Seagate SATAII 500GB 7200RPM hard drive with NCQ and 16MB cache, ATI Radeon X300 PCI-express video card with 128MB of RAM, SilverStone ST56F 560watt PSU, Coolermaster Mystique Full Tower Case, and a Pioneer DVR-111D 16x dual layer DVD burner. I don’t see anything strange about any of this hardware. There’s no chance I’ll be buying a PC with Linux pre-installed because then I’d have a machine with cheap and nasty internal components, an inadequate power supply, and (no doubt) an ugly case.

    Brent R Brian: Everybody thinks their distro is the best, well, I’m sorry but it seems that Fedora isn’t suited to new users. Apart from what I’ve heard from people who have tried it, this review seems to confirm the unsuitability of Fedora for new Linux users: “…this distro is really suited to developers, enthusiasts or perhaps server deployments” and “With distributions like Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS and Mandriva around which do everything for you I don’t see many novice users choosing Fedora.”

    Xiaofan: Since you’ve missed them, allow me to quote a few things I said about GNOME above:

    “It was GNOME, so it was complete rubbish…”

    “…Linux Mint does use GNOME, which is far too Mac-like with it’s philosophy of hiding most configurable options from the user and forcing everybody into one mould.”

    “I just don’t like GNOME much, especially the retarded file manager and the desktop icons that you can’t put near the edge of the screen (which I do so that I can still see important desktop icons when I have windows open).”

    “GNOME is for idiots happy to do things the way Migual de Icaza likes them and not the way the end user might prefer.”

    “Just because you’re happy in the wasteland that is GNOME, doesn’t mean the whole world will be. Even Linus Torvalds himself says GNOME is complete crap compared to KDE, so it’s not just me.”

    “You missed the bit where I said GNOME’s file manager is retarded? I’m not switching to a distro where something as important as the file manager is like wading through mush every time you have to use it. Thunar is OK but still nowhere near Konqueror.”

    Posted by Marc on 7-Jan-2008 at 3:07 pm

64. Ok you do not like Gnome. So you may want to try PCLinux OS and I think it is quite good. You can still keep using Windows XP and I agree it is pretty good. But Vista will finally replace it once SP1 (or at the latest SP2) is out.

    I think Andrey’s No 59 post is quite good. It takes time to get used to Linux. And you may like it once you get over the initial frustrations. In fact, I did not think I would use mainly Linux at home even after years of playing with Linux. Only after Ubuntu 5.04, I started to like Linux. And there is no need to abandon Windows. Both has its strong point. Dual boot is a good option.

    Posted by Xiaofan on 8-Jan-2008 at 12:39 am

65. Marc, you completely lazy smacktard. You bitch about everything but dont actually have the good graces to do a bit of research and see just how good linux can really be. A bit of effort yields sweet rewards. Instead you sit there moistening a chair over XP and the minions of baal.

    Posted by Edward Nygma on 14-Jan-2008 at 11:24 am

66. I agree with Marc … Linux is a waste of time and only appeals to the sorts of people who use band aids to hold their horn rimmed glasses together. Other people who live in the real world and have real relationships with real people are happy enough to use XP because it satisfies the most base requirement … IT WORKS.

    Posted by RufusRex on 14-Jan-2008 at 11:28 am

67. Thank you Hayden, and Hayden :-)

    Posted by Marc on 14-Jan-2008 at 11:30 am

68. >> I stand by my assertion that uninstalling user-space software should not break you system. I can add/remove things in XP all the time and still get reboot and log into my desktop every time.

    I have had the system start malfunctioning after installations or uninstallations on Windows. You may get a desktop afterwards, but it wasn’t the desktop you left behind. As these issues accumulate, eventually you don’t get a desktop at all, though not necessarily immediately after an installation/uninstallation.

    No system is perfect, but I agree with you to an extent. Linux distros should start incorporating a NEWBIE mode so that anything you do from a “package manager” is safe. There would be other features of course besides package management safety. The main point here though would be that you would only be allowed to install/uninstall a limited set of packages and you would never have problems. PCLOS and others should provide package views to NEWBIEs that are high level and virtually foolproof. QA for the NEWBIE level would be more comprehensive (it could be because there would be less knobs to test).

    I love Linux because you can resolve mistakes. You can even participate in improving the system (as you have done somewhat indirectly through your review). You don’t have those options with Windows. In fact, in a few years will there be any issue outstanding with Linux that Windows will have solved? Maybe, but by then Linux will have so much more. It gets better faster than MSware because more people can find and fix mistakes than what Redmond is capable and/or willing to put to the task for Windows (though they have a big head start). And the amazing thing of all of this is that Linux still has a much smaller number of end users than does Windows.

    Windows is a dead end, and with each new iteration of MSware that comes out, it will be that much more difficult to escape tomorrow (and be able to migrate your favorites, docs, etc) when Linux will clearly be the superior platform in almost every respect.

    Linux isn’t about perfection or about being better than Windows because you have to start somewhere. It’s about transparency, which means that it will eventually surpass Windows and keep flying.

    To get back to the PCLOS problem, whether it was an accidental uninstallation or not, I agree that in NEWBIE mode the system should never become difficult to get back into.

    BUT, let’s not forget that there was a solution. It was rather easy relatively speaking (in the future avoid most problems by simply doing dist-upgrades since these take you to the most recent point across all apps which presumably works).

    Linux will always provide a way to shoot yourself, it’s your computer after all and it’s too difficult to know everything that can kill you, so in ADVANCED mode, you should always be able to modify the system as you wish. I mean, Linus and many others have to deal with crashing their (development) system on a daily basis. It’s the only way to make deep improvements to the system and test them out (no one is perfect all the time).

    Also, there may be a weakness in the dependencies coded into PCLOS (apt handles dependecies, whether using debs or rpms). Or apt may need to be extended to allow for handling more cases. I really don’t know because I haven’t looked or researched this enough yet.

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager
    >> RPM has also been criticized for a lack of consistency in package names and content (termed ‘dependency hell’) which can make automatic dependency handling difficult. However, this is not a problem inherent in the RPM format, but rather because of differing packaging guidelines among major Linux distributions that use RPM in packaging such as Fedora, SUSE, and Mandriva Linux. When using packages that are from a particular distribution (say Red Hat Linux) or built for a particular distribution (for example Freshrpms for Fedora [2]), tools such as urpmi, yum or apt can perform automatic dependency checking.

    To RufusRex: XP works until it doesn’t. Someone is always saying that their system is perfect, but the reality is that all of them fall short.

    Posted by Jose_X on 19-Jan-2008 at 5:44 pm

69. And let’s not forget, you have no idea what XP is doing behind your back. You may not know that about Linux either, but if it was doing anything sinister, many would catch on quickly and let world know. Unlike with XP, Linux isn’t closed source, backed by NDAs, AND has millions of USD there to bribe (give amnesia or give naivitetitus to) the few folks able to discover sinister actions being taken by XP or lying dormant. Instead you have a great many loud-mouths working on the open source code daily and publicly online.

    Add the fact that Microsoft is a beast whose ultra lucrative money pipeline is being threatened seriously.. Add that they are incorporating even more encryption into their new products than in the past.. Add that Gates and friends have ambitions beyond mere mortals and do not stop looking into new markets.. Add that the software they control lies underneath where most of the world plays out their office business.. Add that their EULA attempts to legally enable them to do virtually anything with any of your files.. Add that they continue taking over more and more components of the total computing experience for most users (now the MSpyware(TM) is crowding out third party watchdogs).. and you can only imagine what they have in store.

    In this context, mentally, a simple “apt-get dist-upgrade” + coffee (after a little research initially if no one told you about it) almost makes you feel like you arrived in Linux Hawaii after many years of hacking it out in the XP Sahara of uncertainty. The issues with a distro like PCLOS are like the initial day in Hawaii where things are a little more hectic than usual dealing with checking in and such. On XP, even in the best days, you can really become anxious over what the next day will bring if you have anything valuable on the machine and are saving things in MS formats using MS apps or depend on applications written for your business with MS tools. [Alright, I'm exaggerating just a tad :) ]

    Posted by Jose_X on 19-Jan-2008 at 6:18 pm

70. I am now (fingers crossed) happily settled into Mandriva 2008 (i586) and have just installed VirtualBox, a free/open-source virtual machine emulator which was a cinch to install, unlike VMware whose kernel modules refused to compile, even with various modifications to the source code revealed by various Google searches (I did get one module to compile but not the vmnet module, unfortunately).

    And, all of a sudden, Vista media center is deciding it will connect to my Samba share! I don’t know exactly what I did, but I’m just glad it’s working because MythTV involves a little more tinkering than I care for right now (Knoppmyth turned out to be utterly useless and installing MythTV, lirc, etc, under Mandriva didn’t result in much, either).

    So, for now, Mandriva is working out quite well as a desktop OS.

    Posted by Marc on 19-Jan-2008 at 7:28 pm

71. The problem is that distributions like to shape their own ecosystems.

    I recommend Gobolinux. It breaks with the broken FHS model.

    Every App goes in one dir.
    Every setting to that app will also reside there.

    You dont need to fiddle around in a messed up /etc directory at all.

    That being said though, Gobolinux is NOT for a newbie. It will still require a bit knowledge. But at least the people on the mailing list are helpful if one is patient.

    Posted by she on 24-Feb-2008 at 12:25 pm

72. kde and gnome anything both suck ass, they are both counter polar extremes of suckage performance. Gnome with its users are retards philosophy and kde with its intercoupled bloat mindfuck of dependent subprocesses. Get a real desktop system when you use linux and stop screwing a deadhorse such as gnome or kde.

    Posted by dude on 25-May-2008 at 6:45 am

73. The reason I prefer KDE over Gnome is that it allows me to customise its look and feel the way I like it (particularly regarding desktop icons and the file manager). I have had the odd problem with kio_slaves, but apart from that, I’m happy. KDE 4, however, isn’t quite up-to-scratch, so I’m sticking to 3.5.9 for now.

    What desktop system would you recommend (one that isn’t “one size fits all”)? I’ve tried xfce but it’s a tad too “cut down” for my liking. As much as KDE 4 isn’t quite ready for prime time yet, I can see a future for it, especially when users can configure it to their liking as much as they can with KDE 3.5.x right now.

    Posted by Marc on 25-May-2008 at 10:12 am

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